Australia visit notes

From the 21 September to the 14 November 2017 Dona and Alan stayed in Ballina and met up with Richard and Vineeto almost every day for 3-4 hours. These are the personal notes written​​ by Dona and Alan at the time, which have only been edited for grammatical errors and to add further links/information/clarification.

​​ 

PLEASE NOTE: These notes are not verbatim reports of what either Richard or Vineeto said. For one thing Dona and I are both still feeling beings so any recollection of what was said will, inevitably, be ‘slanted’ by our own beliefs and prejudices – we only hear what we want to hear and interpret it as we want to interpret it – and include comments that were not voiced by either Richard or Vineeto.​​ 

References to “Slack”​​ are to the currently operating discussion forum​​ using the Slack app​​ in the “ActualFreedom” workspace [private group, invitation to join required].​​ 

Unless permission to use names has been given participants have been anonymised using Q1, Q2 etc, which refer to the same person as referenced on the​​ Questions and Answers to Richard and Vineeto​​ webpage (questions from slack participants at the time which were discussed with Richard and Vineeto).​​ 

21 Sept 2017

DONA

I met Richard and Vineeto for the first time ... All I can say is... WOW!​​ 

I didn't have much expectation, except that Alan said that Richard did most of the talking, and yesterday Vineeto was more talkative. I had a profound intimate experience with her. I have seen the videos, yet meeting someone in person is very different (at least for me).

ALAN

We met up at our hotel for about 4 hours and very enjoyable (and fruitful) it was.

We​​ discussed love and both Richard & Vineeto emphasised that it was necessary to fully investigate love - both its attractions and handicaps to enable one to choose to go 'beyond' love, to know experientially that it does not deliver the goods [my phraseology].

I mentioned that I had been able to dispel my resentment (not the word I used) towards Craig which started last year when we both thought we had become actually free at the same time. I now realised that the best thing I could do for Craig (if he wasn’t actually free) was to point it out to him to allow him to become free. Vineeto immediately pointed out that the best thing I could do for Craig (and every other body including this one) is to become actually free. Haha, no arguing with that!

Dona had an​​ intense experience with Vineeto, which she described as feeling "full of joy". Vineeto sensed what Dona was experiencing.. While this was happening I also experienced 'something', very similar to what I have previously described as "shivers of delight". I​​ asked​​ Vineeto how she could sense what was happening to Dona, given her inability to feel vibes or psychic currents. We had previously spent some time discussing 'the quickening' and it would seem it may be the same sense in operation - purely physical and probably electromagnetic per Richard's theorem, which he emphasised is just a theory.

While this intense interaction was occurring I said something and Vineeto's immediate response was “Ah still being the policeman” which really hit home. I wanted​​ others to become actually free and was ‘pushing’ them towards an actual freedom as I didn’t want to go first and be alone and ‘lonely’. This related to a preceding conversation when​​ I​​ related my recent experience of investigating the feelings of sadness​​ which happened on giving my dog up for rehoming which led to experiencing how terrifyingly lonely ‘I’ am. I have a fear of loneliness – we had agreed that everyone has a feeling of “I don’t belong” and that it is the fear of ‘leaving the herd’ that is holding me back – hence my encouraging others to become actually free.

22 Sept 2017

DONA

Ok, so today Richard did most of the talking.​​ 

Vineeto spoke about the time she was stopped by the police and cried... It was not affective at all, she had an awareness​​ (not thought operating) that it was the reaction that was needed for the situation (what the officer was expecting, and would stop him from yelling at her, he was out of control).

They also spoke about the difference between basic actual freedom and being​​ fully free, and Vineeto went into detail about her experience of becoming fully free.​​ 

There was a lot more ... But I cannot remember at this moment!

ALAN

Two things stood out for me.

The first, that Richard has never used the term “sweet spot”. It is an invention of the AFFers​​ [1].. A search on the Actual Freedom website produces only one post where “sweet spot” is mentioned -​​ LINK.​​ 

That cleared up a lot​​ of confusion for me as I had been having difficulty in ascertaining whether sensations were occurring in the ‘sweet spot’ or in the sex centre. I was looking for something which does not exist!

The second was when Richard was expounding (in his, as usual,​​ delightful manner) on the survival instinct and that an actual freedom was the next evolutionary step for mankind. Although the survival instinct was absolutely necessary to get all of us to where we are today (and is an extremely powerful instinct), it is not only no longer necessary it is detrimental. WOW – I ‘got it’. ‘I’ am not only no longer required, ‘I’ am – as a fact - a hinderance to evolution and peace on earth for this body, that body and every body. Possibly my missing piece of the jigsaw and now, writing this, I am seeing it clearer than ever before. It is very tied up with the fear of being alone I went into yesterday and I had​​ some further discussion with Vineeto about the underlying fear of ‘leaving the herd’ – being alone.

The discussion about the difference between the full (meaning of life) and the basic (peace on earth) actual freedom also removed a lingering ‘doubt’ I had. There is (essentially) no difference between what one experiences in a PCE (e.g. that the universe is indeed benevolent and beneficent) and a basic actual freedom. Another ‘excuse’ gone – that what I was seeking (as experienced in the PCE) would not be experienced on becoming newly free and I would have to become fully free to experience that. It has all been written already but it was good to have it explained again. In a basic actual freedom the instinctual passions are eliminated and it is impossible to experience any emotion whatsoever. A ‘shadow’ of the social identity (which has been inculcated into one for however many years one has been alive) remains which may “arrogate bodily control”.​​ 

More keeps coming to mind. I had another ‘doubt’ that was put to rest – that a universal outbreak of actual freedom would lead to the end of the human race, given the elimination of the instinct to procreate. Richard soon put paid to that one!

Ah, the whole afternoon was experienced as delightful with lots of laughter and some intimacy experiences. Oh, and great fun.​​ 

Deciding whether to make these notes public on the Slack​​ list has necessitated some consideration. If I am making them public, it will affect what I write – seeking approval and perhaps (still) wanting to ‘push’ others into an actual freedom – something I did again today with Dona, which Vineeto was quick to point out. All to do with not wanting to be alone.

[1] The term “AFFer” refers to a group of people who, in the early 2010’s attempted to ‘marry’ actualism and buddhism with some disastrous results. Richard has referred to them thus:

The pragmatic/ hardcore​​ affers are neither experiencing aspects of awakenment/ enlightenment (Buddhism) nor of an actual freedom (Actualism); my usage of ‘a mongrel state of being’ stems, simply and solely, from hubristic usage of ‘hybrid’ to describe an utter impossibility which​​ has become known as ‘actualising the jhanas’.

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listdcorrespondence/listd12.htm#10Dec12

23 Sept 2017

ALAN

Writing yesterday’s notes last night and contemplating the previous day’s events, I started feeling excellent. On waking this morning I was still feeling excellent and again experiencing that joke de vivre (joie de vivre, but I had to leave in Google’s auto correction​​ as it is so hilarious). I know I am going to do it! Of course I have experienced that before – there is only one way to be certain lol.

CRAIG: Regarding the sweet spot, you mention looking for something that doesn't exist. I wonder if you could expand on​​ what you learned about this topic?

I understand the point about the term being an affer one, and not a phrase Richard uses. Just wondering if Richard made any other clarifications.

Just to add that the "clarification" Richard provided was that the affers​​ used his suggestion (a means of possibly accessing 'sweetness'/naivety/pure intent) to invent the "sweet spot".​​ 

What I "learned" was that it doesn't exist and I had been trying to discern whether the intimacy sensations I was having with Dona originated​​ in the sex centre or the 'sweet spot' leading to my confusion and searching for something which doesn't exist. I have used the 'technique'​​ [2]​​ suggested by Richard with some success but even then I was looking for the sweet spot rather than the sensation of ‘sweetness'.

My approval seeking from Richard and/or Vineeto (and everyone else) is brought about by my fear of being alone if I ‘leave the herd’. Hence also, as I have already stated, wanting to encourage others to become actually free.​​ 

[2] The reference to a ‘technique” is described​​ HERE

DONA

We had another excellent experience with Richard and Vineeto today. We have been alternating between meeting at​​ our hotel (on the balcony overlooking the Richmond River), and their boat, on the Richmond River. Today was at our hotel. 

Prior to them coming, while walking to the beach for sunrise, a strong fear came over me, that "the me that's in control" needs to​​ be there for this body's survival. That the body would die if I self-imolated. When I got back to our hotel I told Alan about it, and then later a strong "panic attack" happened... Shaking and tightness in my chest, heart beating fast. I told Richard and Vineeto about that and they talked about the survival instinct and how powerful it is. Richard talked about his many panic attacks, and that the fear in the panic attack feeds it, and makes it stronger, and once he saw that "nothing ever really happens", they never came back again. 

They were very encouraging about "how simple" it is to become actually free, and to see that it's my "destiny" (purpose in life) to do that, and the only thing stopping me was procrastination! That once the decision is made, it​​ will happen... So simple! Lol!

There was discussion about the difference between vibes and psychic currents (which I was confused about)... That vibes are when people are in close proximity, and psychic currents are not limited by space (or by time).

And​​ discussions regarding the "real world" vs the "actual world". There were many other topics in the 4 hours we were together, but these are what I can remember. 

ALAN

A very productive afternoon for both of us, filled with fun and laughter. There is nothing at all serious about an actual freedom.

One thing under the ‘spotlight’ today was why I am delaying self immolation – procrastinating. ​​ 

There was discussion about knowing that I am perfectly capable of surviving without the self and Vineeto pointed out that I was sitting opposite two living examples. I also know from the PCE that this body is perfectly capable ​​ (and actually better of) of surviving without ‘me’ being in control.

I know from experience that my greatest desire is oblivion.

I know it is​​ my destiny (there was a fair bit of discussion about destiny).

It is the irrevocability of the final step which gives rise to the fear (and the procrastination). Richard stated the irrevocability several times. He pointed out that it is a win/win situation.

We discussed the differences between materialism and spiritualism and I said I had always considered myself to be from a non-spiritual background. A little while later I was relating my experience of being God-on-earth in my 20’s, when Richard slipped​​ in “and you’re not from a spiritual background, eh”. Much laughter!

At one stage there was a ‘shift’ (change) in the ‘atmosphere’. Vineeto asked if I had noticed that it had become more still. I could but I am not sure if Richard or Dona did. She suggested a ‘resistance’ had gone in one or both of us. I certainly (and I think Dona also) definitely came closer to the actual world which is what she was sensing I think.

It is fascinating (and beneficial) to observe that they are two very different ‘people’ (the ‘personality’ still remains, even after a full Actual Freedom).

There was nothing discussed which is not written on the Actual Freedom website - apart from a few personal anecdotes perhaps. One of Richards favourites (in relation to becoming free from​​ the human condition) was Grace phoning him and saying she wanted to become free this coming weekend (much as one would order a pizza) – and she did! This was emphasising that it is a matter of choice and ‘I’ must not only choose it but also want it more than anything else. This anecdote was in relation to discussion about ​​ how easy it was to become free. At the pivotal moment nothing actually happens as one has always (as this flesh and blood body only) been here in the actual world.

One other thing from​​ yesterday. Tears (of joy) are not necessarily affective and can happen even when the feeling being is extinct. I had tears at one point today when no affective feeling was happening (I can’t remember why) and this has happened to me many times previously.​​ For example, watching and hearing Vineeto describe what she is experiencing on the Out-From-Control dvd can bring tears. Something to do with imminence, I think – and definitely joy.​​ 

24 Sept 2017

ALAN

'I' am lost, lonely and very, very frightened. Seeking approval and reinforcement every moment, checking to see if I'm doing the right thing etc etc. 'I' don't want to be here.

However the 'bottom line' is that I know (with an absolute certainty) that 'I' am forever locked out of paradise (the actual world)​​ - and 'I' know paradise exists. That is a continuous and continuing torture each moment. Separation - which 'I'​​ continuously seek to end - will never be ended - and 'I' know it. Hence the desire for it all to end - oblivion.​​ [Alan on Slack]

Writing the​​ above to Claudiu enabled me to see that I have not yet accepted that ‘I’ cannot become actually free. I think that if only I do what has been written ‘properly’ it will happen. Hence some of the ‘tricks’ I get up to – thinking I am experiencing being out-from-control, having an EE, feeling a near actual caring and, ultimately, ‘faking’ being actually free.

With Richard and Vineeto

Today’s conversation seemed to be more ‘serious’ – not for Richard and Vineeto of course!

I seem to get most pleasure from others experiences. E.g. Q3 having a PCE when I was on the phone to him. Vineeto pointed out that I was relying on another for my pleasure. I said it was tied in with wanting others to become actually free before me, at which point Richard asked “all 7 billion​​ people?” ​​ No. “How many then?” One or two? “There are two people sitting here who are actually free”. Ahhh! ​​ I settled on 10 lol

Yesterday, I voiced that I had been wanting to say that I wanted to be in the same place as Richard and Vineeto but had been​​ unable to say it. Dona did say it. I thought I had gone on to actually say it but last night Dona said she didn’t hear me say it. Vineeto confirmed that today and I said it was true – I could not say it (with 100% sincerity). I went over all that I had experienced – that I was rotten to the core, that I knew ‘I’ could not experience an actual freedom, I knew it was for the benefit of this body and every body, I knew ‘I’ wanted oblivion. Vineeto suggested I was compartmentalising them and if I allowed them to be in one compartment - ??? I was searching for my objection to becoming free. Perhaps because you are stubborn, Vineeto suggested. She saw me as digging my heels in and I could see me being the petulant child – “I don’t want to do it” with stamping of the foot. ​​ I am a stubborn person. Something for me to contemplate.

Following on from this, we were talking about feeling beings and I said I couldn’t understand why they don’t want to be happy and harmless. Vineeto said “Including you - you don’t want to​​ be happy and harmless”. In a corner again.

Dona had a fairly long conversation about being not worthy and releasing ‘being’. ​​ This also had quite an effect on me.

The irrevocability of becoming actually free was discussed again. We were using the word ‘button’ for the action of allowing self-immolation (there is, of course no ‘button’). Finding the ‘button’ means that, at the same moment, the button will be pressed and it cannot be undone. The finding of it and the pressing of it are one and the same thing. I can see that.

And procrastination again. When one has done all one can, checked out all the possibilities etc etc all one can do is procrastinate.

DONA

Additional notes from yesterday (170923):

I was confused about "what" controls the body once the identity is gone. They spoke of ‘native intelligence’ and I thought that meant the intelligence of the universe. They were quick to correct me by saying that the universe is not intelligent. That native Intelligence is​​ the intelligence that we're born with​​ that is hidden behind the identity. It has always been there, but we don't have access to it with the identity in place.

At one point there was a significant stillness that fell upon us. Vineeto commented about it and I did notice that it was there... A​​ stillness... A peacefulness. Alan mentioned noticing it as well.

One thing that really struck me was when Vineeto spoke about becoming actually free as a great adventure. I like that word adventure!  That is what I have been "seeking" all along, and have​​ mentioned it a few times to Alan since we've been together and even before we got together.

At one point while we are sitting outside looking over Richmond River, we noticed that there were two dolphins in the marina right below our balcony. They stayed there for quite a while swimming together.

Today's notes (170924):

Before we got together today I noticed that I have a strong belief that I need to do everything the hard way, that I can't do anything easy. This goes along with what we discussed yesterday​​ about becoming actually free being very simple. I don't believe that I can make it simple, that it will be very difficult for me. When we got together on Vineeto and Richard’s boat I told them about that belief,  and I noticed I had a sense of pride with​​ that, as if I was special because it wouldn't be easy for me - it would have to be hard. Vineeto pointed out that to be actually free would be what was special.  That if I really wanted to be special the thing would be to become actually free!

We talked​​ about this sense of feeling special and I mentioned how I actually have a sense of being unworthy and not good enough which is the opposite of special. Vineeto asked me if I thought that I was good enough to be actually free, if I felt I was worthy of becoming actually free. I admitted that I didn't. I didn't feel worthy or good enough to become actually free. 

Then Richard spoke up and said that everybody he has talked to feels unworthy. That we all know deep down that we are a fake, a fraud. So, of course we don't feel worthy, because we are a fraud, and we know it.  And the best thing we could do to "be worthy" is to achieve our destiny, to become actually free. This would allow the identity to achieve what it's here to achieve... To be free! In that instant I saw it clearly, that I could set my identity free! I went into an EE with this realization.

Self-immolation never really "resonated" with me, it seemed to contain violence in it (for me), but setting the identity free... Wow!! I got it!! 

I could​​ sense my identity and body coming into agreement that this was the best for each. I told Richard/Vineeto/Alan that it felt like a burden to have the identity trying to control things, especially since it didn't know what "was best" most of the time. And it​​ was also a burden on the body because all the confusion of the identity put stress on it!  I saw/see that setting the identity free was the best for "every body".

On the way to Richard and Vineeto's I told Alan that "today was the day"! I announced it to​​ Richard and Vineeto as well. Though I didn't become actually free today, I see the possibility is imminent!

25 Sept 2017

ALAN

The number of peak experiences I have been having has increased since arriving here. However I have not really had one (fully) when meeting with Richard and Vineeto. Similar happened the last time I was in Ballina. Is it because I fear what will happen if I do?

One thought which is ‘off base’ and maybe hints of megalomania. What I (and Dona) am/have been doing is affecting others.​​ I already know I affect others in my presence when I am emitting felicitous and innocuous vibes (out-from-control in an EE). They become more happy. I also have a small amount of evidence that this can happen when at a distance. The ‘energy level’ of slack​​ has changed in the last few days. Of course that may be caused by some being excited(?) by the knowledge that we are meeting with Richard and Vineeto and reading our notes. It is not completely new territory. Similar happened during the intimate ambience​​ experiment for example and we have previously talked about the ‘critical number’ of actually free people required to enable a global outbreak of peace on earth. Now that is quite some motivation to becoming actually free – doing it for this body, that body​​ and every body. Whether it is correct or not, I care not, I got my motivation back. Whoopee!

The most important thing for me this afternoon was a discussion about my “out-from-control” experience this morning which lasted about an hour - I was not keeping track of the time.​​ 

In an out-from-control experience there is a ‘shift’ and​​ it is definitely a different way of being. It is very similar to a PCE but ‘I’ am still present – I was aware of this the whole time it was happening and, at times, experienced​​ ‘me’ trying to regain control – which ‘I’ obviously did at some point. The main difference between what I experienced and the ‘full blown’ out from being under control experience (which Vineeto lived for six weeks prior to becoming actually free) was that​​ I knew it was a temporary experience and, although I experienced that an actual freedom was my destiny, she experienced rushing headlong towards her destiny. Her experience was dynamic, mine was static.

My main ‘stumbling block’ is that I have to experience that I am doing it for this body as well as for every body. I almost am lol

Following my experience this morning, I was able to say with conviction that I wanted to be in the ‘same place’ as Richard and Vineeto,​​ which I could not do yesterday.

Good fun.

DONA

Today we met at our hotel and sat on the balcony overlooking Richmond River. 

We discussed a lot of terminology and definitions today specifically the difference between:

In-control virtual freedom

Out-from-control virtual freedom

Actual​​ freedom

PCE

(And, I didn't know that "in control" and "out-from-control" were 2 types of virtual freedoms).

An "in-control virtual freedom" is where you are living as happy and harmless as is humanly possible, and feeling good each moment again.

An "out-from-control virtual freedom" is where you are living the ‘beer’ rather than being the ‘doer’. The identity is still present, and Richard stated that it's even more 'full on". 

Actual freedom is where the identity is completely gone.

And a PCE (pure consciousness experience), is where the identity is in "abeyance" (and it's usually a fairly temporary experience). 

We also talked about the psychic web and psychic currents and how they have affected us.

We discussed a lot of current topics and historical​​ topics and looking at my beliefs regarding these and related to the psychic web (the different layers of cultural beliefs).

26 Sept 2017

ALAN

This morning I was going over what triggered my out from control experience yesterday. I was enjoying the magnificence of my surroundings, appreciating the vista, watching the pelican diving for fish, listening to the chorus of birdsong. I was also contemplating on what Vineeto had said the day before about being ‘stubborn’. But the thing which was the ultimate ‘trigger’ was reading some of the posts on slack and thinking that I might be being of benefit to others. This is still doing it for the benefit of others – not for this body.

DONA

We met again at our hotel because Vineeto had an appointment down the street from the hotel. 

Alan spoke more of his experience of being out from control yesterday, which led to us discussing the issue of being unworthy (again). Vineeto brought up many of the things that she had said the day before, about every being feeling unworthy. She pointed out that 'I' will always be unworthy, and 'I' can never be worthy and the only 'worthy' thing 'I' can do is to become actually free.

Yesterday we spoke a lot about Donald Trump, gay marriage, minorities and other controversial topics and I​​ noticed how I had beliefs regarding all these subjects. I had an internal reaction of being stubborn about holding onto those beliefs.

Last night I noticed what I had been doing and I  spoke about it today. I saw how I just hear bits and pieces of a topic​​ and form an opinion based on what I already believed to be true without really looking at the facts. And because I only hear bits and pieces I make up a whole story about it, and most of it is not true. Good to see this in action... And it happened​​ again today and I saw it right away. I started to argue a point about something that I really didn't know anything about!

Vineeto had an appointment and left for about 2 hours. 

Richard spoke to us about the main instincts - the survival instincts- altruism and​​ selfism. ​​ And he sees that altruism is a stronger of the two instincts - that's how 'self'-immolation is possible.

I had a confusion at this point because I thought the instinctual passions were the main instincts. He said that the Instinctual passions are feelings and that altruism and selfism have no feelings, they are the survival instincts.​​ [3]

Richard told me about his experience with becoming actually free, which I had not heard prior. 

We talked a little more about the 'Quickening' and how Richard​​ thinks it may be electromagnetic in nature. He stressed that it is only a theory and that he has no expertise in electromagnetism.

We again talked about the psychic web, and psychic currents.

I had a strong intimacy experience with Richard today, it was​​ awesome, I felt 'tingly' sensations throughout my whole body​​ 😀

ALAN

We met up at our hotel again today as Vineeto had an appointment in town.​​ 

It was a very good afternoon. I described the atmosphere as​​ being ‘lighter’, more fun – which was of course how I was experiencing myself. When Dona and I were ‘comparing notes’, after Richard and Vineeto left, we found we had been having a similar experience including a ‘tingling’ all over the body.

We covered a lot of ground, too much to write about – Dona has reported some. I explored further my wanting to do it for every body but not including this body. That stems from feeling unworthy (of an actual freedom in this case). Vineeto suggested ‘I’ feel unworthy because ‘I’ know ‘I’ can never be actually free. More​​ contemplation required. It is somehow an avoidance technique ‘I’ have invented.

[3] Vineeto subsequently made the following comment:

Dona writes –​​ 

I had a confusion at this point because I thought the instinctual passions were the main instincts. He​​ said that the Instinctual passions are feelings and that altruism and selfism have no feelings, they are the survival instincts.

[...]

The distinction between the survival instincts (selfism and altruism) and the instinctual passions is that selfism/altruism are actions whereas the instinctual passions are feelings.

Selfism and altruism are powerful instinctual impulses and they can come with a whole range of associated feelings, depending on the circumstances. See Richard’s correspondences on altruism  –​​ 

RESPONDENT:​​ You are making a distinction between ‘I/me’ eliminating itself and it being done altruistically.

RICHARD:​​ No, I am more making the point that only altruism – self-sacrificial humanitarianism – will provide the enormous energy necessary for ‘self’-immolation ... the instinct for individual survival is only exceeded by the instinct for group survival.

It takes a powerful instinct to overcome a powerful instinct.

RESPONDENT:​​ I understand this intellectually but I don’t really feel it. If ‘I’ do it​​ for this body it will help everybody but it feels like I want to do it for selfish reasons. You seem to be saying that it can only be done altruistically and I don’t feel altruistic about it.

RICHARD:​​ Properly speaking the word ‘altruistic’ is not a word for a feeling but a word for behaviour or action that benefits others at the expense of self (altruism is the very antithesis of selfism), such as fighting to the death to protect the young, defend the group or secure the territory, and as such could evoke​​ any number of feelings ... such as fear, thrill, courage, excitement, exhilaration, euphoria and so on.

Although it can be used to mean ‘unselfish’ that is a watering-down of the word.
(www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listbcorrespondence/listb39a.htm#01Nov02a​​ )

And –​​ 

RESPONDENT:​​ If all ‘I’ can manage is the illusion of caring, how is ‘altruism’ or ‘pure intent’ possible? I don’t understand.

RICHARD:​​ First of all, in its biological sense altruism is an instinctive action – born of the drive to survive – such as in fighting to the death to protect the young, defend the group, or secure the territory, and is not so much a feeling of caring but an involuntary response ... a response which could evoke any number of feelings (such as fear, thrill, courage, excitement, exhilaration, euphoria and so on).

Although it can be used to mean an unselfish feeling, the ‘self’-centred feeling of caring for others, that is a watering-down of the word as, properly speaking, altruism is an instinctive behaviour or deed which benefits others at the expense of self ... of the two survival instincts, individual survival and group survival, the instinct for the survival of the group​​ is usually the stronger instinct.

It takes a powerful instinct (altruism) to overcome a powerful instinct (selfism).

The pure intent to have the already always existing peace-on-earth become apparent is a determination, born of the PCE, and thus is indicative more of a dedication, a strength of purpose, as in the will to freedom, rather than a ‘self’-centred feeling of caring ... one taps in to the over-arching benignity and benevolence of the actual world.​​ 
(www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/listafcorrespondence/listaf27d.htm#18Nov02​​ )

27 Sept 2017

DONA

We met at our hotel, sitting on the balcony overlooking Richmond River. Vineeto had some business to take care of, so it was just me, Alan and Richard today.

I read out to Richard what I wrote yesterday to verify I accurately stated what he said (to make sure I wasn't misleading), and he said it was correct. 

Then​​ I read out Geoffrey and Q4's posts/questions on the instincts, to get his reply. 
Basically, all the instincts are 'the being'. The distinction between the survival instincts (selfism and altruism) and the instinctual passions is that selfism/altruism are​​ actions whereas the instinctual passions are feelings.​​ [SEE BELOW FOR RELEVANT SLACK POSTS]
When we become actually free the instincts are eliminated, though the social identity can sometimes still 'hang on'... Peter termed it the "shadow identity", which​​ Richard explained is the difference between a newly (basic) free person and a fully free person (who has eliminated all remnants of their social identity).

Richard talked a bit about the development of the social identity, which comes from our parents, close associations, society and the psychic web. 

He explained what pure intent was. He knew (when he was a feeling being) that he would not be able to self-immolate through him'self' alone. He equated it to pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps, which is impossible. During the PCEs that he had, he experienced the benignity and benevolence of the universe, and used that as his 'guide' to pull him through to actual freedom. The 'pure' (or purity) is the benignity and benevolence of the universe. 

He then went on to explain that a fully actually free person is pure intent personified (or Purity personified). He mentioned that people have said they have noticed a sweetness or tenderness around him, and I have experienced that myself.

He read out loud (from the website)​​ LINK​​ the experience that he and Peter had when Peter became actually free.

He told us many stories about his life, early childhood, living on a dairy farm in "rural" Australia. He traveled around a lot, having lots of great adventures. He also spoke of his first marriage and children and supporting them all as an artist (painting and ceramics). 

ALAN

It doesn't look like I am going to write any notes about today's​​ meeting tonight. The thing that stood out for me (and Dona as well I think) was when Richard read the account of Peter becoming actually free, including his pop up notations. While he was reading it we both experienced 'something'. I do urge anyone who has​​ not read it to do so (and Vineeto's report) and those who have already read it to do so again - including the pop ups, very important. I have read it many times and I think this is what Craig was referring to when he said he read it often immediately prior to becoming actually free.

It is likely that Peter's (and Richard's) experience was peculiar to the first person to forge the 'direct route' - that makes it no less magical.

Peter’s report can be found​​ HERE​​ and Vineeto’s​​ HERE

SLACK POSTS REFERRED TO ABOVE

geoffrey

2017-09-26 09:05:19

>DONA: (Richard) said that the Instinctual passions are feelings and that altruism and selfism have no feelings, they are the survival instincts.

That is interesting. It’s something I’ve been thinking about, how ‘selfism’ (which I simply called ‘survival instinct’) and altruism are in a different category to fear, aggression, desire and nurture. The survival instincts (selfism:individual and altruism:group/species) definitely seem more ‘primordial’ when you face them. Like there is no way around so to speak. And indeed there is not, one has to use one to overcome the other.

I wonder how the survival instincts relate to ‘being’. Are they just its primary characteristics, or do they somehow ‘constitute’ it?

If ‘being’ is the ‘separation’, can we say that ‘selfism’ (being the maintaining of the separation) is how ‘being’ maintains itself, its means of living so to speak?

Q4

2017-09-26 23:25:30

If ‘being’ is the ‘separation’, can we say that ‘selfism’ (being the maintaining of the separation) is how ‘being’ maintains itself, its means of living so to speak?

If this clarification from Richard is correct, then 'being' IS the selfism and altruism. Making it a class of psychic 'reality' all on its own. Hence, one can end 'being' while still having the effects of identity operating, as the social identity is somewhat independent of 'being'. I see your theorizing, and I raise you a wild speculation...😜

dona

2017-09-27 05:35:03

@geoffrey I read out to Richard what I wrote yesterday to verify I accurately stated what he said (to make sure I wasn't misleading), and he said it was​​ correct.​​ 

Basically, all the instincts are 'the being'. The distinction between the survival instincts (selfism and altruism) and the instinctual passions is that selfism/altruism are actions whereas the instinctual passions are feelings.

When we become actually free the instincts are eliminated, though the social identity can sometimes still 'hang on'... Peter termed it the "shadow identity", which Richard explained is the difference between a newly (basic) free person and a fully free person (who has eliminated all remnants of their social identity).

BTW geoffrey and Q4 I read your posts/questions to Richard, and the reply I posted is the answer he gave. He asked me to tell him what I would reply to make sure I got it correctly.

alan

2017-09-27 06:53:44

Dona and I were writing replies at the same time and she managed to post hers first and then distracted me. I'll post mine anyway.

I read out your posts to Richard (Vineeto had business elsewhere today). Richard’s opinion is that you are complicating things​​ unnecessarily. Your first paragraph in your first post correctly states the position, Geoffrey.

We are born with both the survival instincts (selfism and altruism) and the instinctual passions (mainly fear, aggression, nurture and desire). Both are what ‘I’ am – ‘being’. The social identity is formed – mainly by one’s parents – with the main purpose of controlling the instincts and behaving in a ‘civilised’ manner. Upon becoming actually free ‘being’ disappears completely (as though it has never been) – both the survival instincts and the instinctual passions. The social identity is not eliminated by becoming actually free although it can only arrogate bodily control, as I said in my notes. There is no 'being' either controlling or 'feeling'.

28 Sept 2017

DONA

Last evening with Richard (and Alan), we discussed pure intent and purity personified, and Richard read aloud Peter's and his experience of when Peter became actually free. I could sense the purity personified that Richard was speaking of during this,​​ and experienced a feeling of disorientation. 

Later in the evening Alan and I had an intensely profound intimacy experience.

This morning I was "triggered” by a comment that Srid posted on slack, where he used the words "especially women" (the actual post​​ was not a trigger, just those words). I saw right away how something as simple as a few words could trigger a reaction from me and how I have built the whole foundation of my "reality" on false beliefs ... And the foundation of my reality crumbled, propelling me into a Peak Experience. I  stayed in that peak experience all day (and still there). Thank you Srid​​ 😀

Richard and Vineeto came to our hotel later today... I was still in the experience of this morning, and relayed the experience to them. 

We also​​ discussed the clarification of "Instinctual passions", and even though selfism and altruism are actions, they are fuelled by the Instinctual passions, so when the Instinctual passions are eliminated selfism and altruism are eliminated as well. 

ALAN

Ah,​​ what a fantastic day! Far too much to write about again.

Dona had an experience this morning and I thought she might have become actually free. My immediate reactions were all completely selfish. It should have been me first. ‘Fear’ at being left on my own​​ – my ‘ally’ had deserted me. Jealousy. I think my first words were “you’ve left me behind”. I said I was so pleased for her but I didn’t really mean it. I was concerned about the effect it would have on me – would she still want to be with me, would we still share the same intimacy/sexual experiences [after Richard and Vineeto left we experientially confirmed that the intimacy/sexual experiences are better than ever for both of us]. All completely selfish.

That is how rotten I am to the core. Here was my constant companion of almost a year, the person I am closest to in the world, saying she had experienced what we both had come all this way for and I wasn’t delighted for her! I was even a bit frightened of her.​​ 

It also gave me a very strong motivation to​​ set ‘myself’ free. Not wanting to be outdone - if she can do it so can I - ​​ that’s where I want to be.

When we met up with Richard and Vineeto I read out my notes, above, which occasioned much hilarity – Richard quipped “I don’t see much of putting the other first in what you just read out” [MY PARAPHRASING]. I joined in the hilarity. And perhaps this is an opportune moment to emphasise that what we are experiencing is so much fun. Not at all serious (sincere certainly but serious, no way). Another amusing​​ moment occurred when I was asked – a rat deserting the sinking ship perhaps? I ‘got it’ and shouted at Dona “YOU RAT” - cue more hilarity.

I said I had also experienced - when writing the above - that I could see my stubbornness in refusing to become actually free, which we discussed the other day. Vineeto pointed out that being stubborn can be used to assist – as in stubbornly refusing to give up on achieving an actual freedom.

Richard and Vineeto do not experience benevolence and benignity, they are benevolence and benignity (personified). We talked about this for a while. There has to be ‘something’ there to ‘experience’. The ‘something’ for a feeling being is, of course ‘me’. At one stage I reached out to Vineeto and caressed her arm and said “you experience that?” Then I said I had the suspicion that I may have done it because Peter caressed Richard’s face immediately prior to becoming actually free – an example of ‘me’ being tricky (which we had previously been discussing). I said that everything I do​​ and say is me as ‘being’. Richard pointed out that the caress of Vineeto’s arm had been spontaneous, there was no ‘being’ involved (however briefly). It was when I started to doubt it that ‘being’ took over [not his exact words].

Richard pointed out that what we are doing is just sitting round a table talking. No meditation. No mantras. No ‘practices’. Nothing to ‘follow’. Just four people sitting chatting [MY WORDS FOLLOW] with astonishing results and some weird and whacky things lol

29 Sept 2017

DONA

We​​ met on the boat today. Vineeto had work to do so she wasn't there until later.

I asked about the difference between an ASC and a PCE... The main difference is that with an ASC the sense of 'self' expands, and in a PCE the sense of self is missing (in abeyance).

There is also a difference in the experience of time. In an ASC there is a sense of "timelessness", whereas in a PCE there is a sense of "being in time", this moment. 

I realized that the peak experience I had yesterday was a PCE, which lasted all day. I still felt the "effects" of it today... Feeling excellent all day long (and still now). 

We talked a few times about the benefits of having a "partner" while exploring an actual freedom, and Richard stated that though it is not necessary, that a male/female partnership was the most beneficial. He spoke about the dynamics of males and females (being different), and "putting things on the table" to learn about each other's beliefs, and to openly discuss them without it being personal. He talked about this assisting him in a large way in his becoming actually free. Vineeto spoke about caring, a caring as close to an actual caring as an identity can muster. Only when she cared enough to give all of ‘herself’ to another person  (the closest person to her), was she then able to leave all remnant concerns and inhibitions of her identity behind... Leading to her becoming actually free. Some people think she was talking about giving herself to herself, which she said is impossible. 

I asked him about the actualism method, and about getting back to feeling good, and then investigating what caused us to "not feel good". I mentioned that sometimes it's difficult to do that because once I'm "feeling good" I think there isn't a problem anymore (that getting back to feeling good either cleared it, or was the only thing needed). He said that happens a lot. Many people think that once they're feeling good... That's it. But, it's important to find the thing that first caused us to "feel bad" ... And look at that. If we don't investigate it and eliminate it (by finding the belief behind it), it will come back again. Then eventually we can get to the point where we see that "first event", and catch it while it's happening, which is what he calls "nipping it in the bud", but even that doesn't eliminate it until we find and deal with the belief behind it.

Richard told many stories about his life and experiences as a sane person (his first 30 odd years). As an insane person (his "enlightenment" period), and then actually free and​​ about what each of those periods were like. 

All in all an excellent day! 

30 Sept 2017

DONA

We met at our hotel, it was a marvellous day/evening. A little bit cloudy, and more chilly than the day before, with a gusty wind.

Alan had some things that had​​ come up with him that he will probably post about in his notes.

We spoke a lot more about "nipping it in the bud", as that has always seemed to cause confusion, and I need more clarification on it. When we notice we're not feeling good, get back to​​ feeling good... But DON'T STOP THERE!  trace back to when we went from feeling good to feeling bad, and investigate what caused that change. 

After we do this enough times (getting back to the initial event), we can usually notice the pattern happening sooner and sooner, until we get to where we see it at the initial event... That is "nipping it in the bud" (not letting it go until we're getting really bad)... BUT DON'T STOP THERE! continue to investigate until you get to the cause (sometimes, but not always, a belief). 

Alan and I asked them the questions that other people asked, and they discussed the answers... With occasional side tracks and Richard's fondness for long stories​​ 😁

ALAN

9pm yesterday

When I woke up this morning I was feeling excellent. At some point that diminished and it has taken me until now (9 in the evening) to admit that and investigate why. I also had to sidestep the temptation to blame Dona for causing it via vibes – a very dangerous thing to do, as I have written about more than​​ once. I even got irritated with her when she asked me to post her notes for today – that was the cause of me realising and admitting there was something ‘wrong’.​​ 

The reason was because the level of intimacy I was feeling (particularly towards Dona) had reduced – from right at the top of the scale this morning. I was still feeling excellent when sitting out on the balcony writing on slack – my last post was 1030. At some point between then and arriving at the boat feeling excellent declined.

I have just been discussing it with Dona and I am now thinking that the reason might have been fear at the level of intimacy this morning – perhaps I got too close to actually caring. It was the most intimate with her I have ever felt. Can there be a delayed reaction as, talking between us, I have not been able to find a ‘trigger’.​​ 

6am

I woke this morning and sat out on the balcony contemplating on what had happened. I knew there was something important to uncover.

When I was talking to Dona about her notes I experienced the same ‘confusion’ as I did at one point (at least once) on my last visit to Australia and again during the intimate ambience experiment. Then and now I blamed it on the other – their vibes. It is being out OF control or close to it. Not knowing what​​ to do. There may be some sort of ‘pattern’. Having a strong intimacy experience and then the reaction. It was also happening when with Richard yesterday – I couldn’t ‘think straight’. It is ‘me’ knowing that ‘I’ will never be able to know whether what is happening is actually happening or is it just something ‘I’ am making up. ‘I’ can’t ever accept that I am forever separate from the actual world. I think that I can see the magnificence and perfection but I can never experience it.​​ 

It was also to do with Richard saying two days ago that he did not experience benignity and benevolence – he is benignity and benevolence. That has been ‘burning away’. I understand that there is no ‘being’ in Richard to experience. So I guess it’s the same as these eyes seeing rather than ‘me’ seeing.​​ 

I went back to bed and related to Dona what I had been experiencing and went into it further. I can ‘see’ that I want to end ‘being’ – it is an awful, agonising experience - every moment - trying to do the ‘right’ thing, forever seeking approval and reinforcement (something we discussed yesterday), forever lost and lonely.

01 Oct 2017

DONA

We had rain today, and couldn't sit outside at our hotel, so we went to Richard and Vineeto's boat.

Richard did a "check in" as soon as we​​ arrived... Where were we. Both Alan and I were feeling great. I told him that I was a bit tired because Alan woke me at 5:30am giggling... He was having a wonderful experience (unknown what to label it). We​​ shared a great experience of intimacy. 

Alan has been looking at some things that we discussed yesterday about "making things up" (I'll let Alan fill in those details).

I asked them how they experience music now that they're in the actual world, since it​​ seems to me that music is made almost exclusivity to elicit a feeling. They said they don't listen to music much, though there is some music that they listen to (mostly classical) because of the technical ability of the artists/musicians.

Alan equated it to them looking at a marvelous scene is enjoyable to the eyes, and listening to marvelous music is enjoyable to the ears.

Vineeto said she prefers to listen to the birds singing outside rather than recorded music (or even recordings of birds)

Most of the time was spent discussing the questions that were posted on slack... Which will be posted on the "question and answers" page so I won't repeat them here.

Thanks for all the questions... Keep them coming​​ 😎

ALAN

Quite a bit of our time with Richard and Vineeto yesterday (and a bit of today) was spent with me in the “hot seat” (where I had put myself, as I wanted to find out more about what had happened to me the previous day). I have difficulty in remembering a lot of what was said (which is suspicious in itself). I have not yet fully appreciated what is happening/the experiences and until I do, any reporting of them is only likely to cause confusion. Also they are peculiar to me anyway and it is unlikely others will experience the same. It was a lot to do with ‘me’ making things up and confusion and the causes. A couple of times I said I had experienced intimacy for Dona (also was ‘I’ making it up) which Vineeto queried and I had difficulty understanding.

I woke up this morning and realised I was feeling intimate again. I started giggling and realised – and said to Dona - “I can’t fake intimacy”. It was also ​​ startlingly obvious that I felt intimacy WITH Dona not FOR her, whereas yesterday I could not clearly see the difference.

I found myself in a place I had​​ never been before which (after comparing notes, so to speak) seems to have been very similar to what Dona experienced two days ago. No sense of ‘me’. Not a PCE and not an EE or IE (as I had previously experienced them). I did consider that I might be actually free (as Dona did) but a comparison of what I was experiencing with what is experienced in an actual freedom ruled that out. It was a delicious and delightful experience which diminished after a few hours, over the course of the day until I could ‘feel’ that ‘I’ was back in control, although control/’me’ is much diminished.

02 Oct 2017

DONA

It was raining again today, so we met on the boat. 

Prior to meeting I had some amazing realizations that culminated in a peak experience! I had been feeling excellent since the peak experience I had a few days ago, but this morning I noticed it had diminished. I wondered what caused it to diminish, and what came up was that I was feeling that I had been here for over a week and I wasn't actually free. I could see I​​ had made some really big steps, and wondered what was still blocking me... And "unworthy" came up...I immediately saw that was my "standard answer", and going down that road was not the answer. Yet, I still didn't feel any better. I then saw I felt guilty​​ about using up Vineeto and Richard's time. Again, I refused to go down that old road as well. I was​​ starting to feel much better, almost to excellent again. I saw how I had all these excuses for not feeling good, and if I had gone down those roads I would've only been at a dead end (as always), with no solution in sight! I could see a lifetime habit fall away... Those roads were not ones I would go down again. I was back to feeling excellent!

When we got to the boat I told Richard and Vineeto of my experience.

Then Alan spoke about what had happened to him the night before, when he shifted from feeling excellent down to feeling bad... Resentment towards me and something I hadn't done (the way he wanted it done) was the main feeling he spoke of. Richard immediately went into the actualism method... Amazing to watch it in action by the one who first came up with it! He asked Alan to think back from the moment he felt excellent to when he felt bad... It took some time to pinpoint the exact event and then the exact feeling that caused the change from excellent to bad... the "bud" of the problem. 

At one point Vineeto asked me, "so what is stopping you"? I told her I didn't know. Richard said to just let the question "hang there", and allow an answer to come.. Not to force it... So that question is now there.

We asked the few questions that people asked on slack (again.. Thanks...I got a lot from their answers!)

One that had an impact on me was Claudiu's question about empathy. I was surprised that both Richard​​ and Vineeto recommended "being empathic" - that it was a valuable tool, both having similar experiences with it. When Richard was out-from-control, he said he could experience that others were caught up in the same human condition he was in, and know the only way was out. 

Vineeto found it a valuable tool as well, as prior to that she had blocked herself off from feeling the sorrow and malice of the human condition, and once she allowed herself to feel it, she was then able to know for sure that she didn't​​ want to be here, and the only way to help them was to get out of it herself... To show others that is possible. 

Though they both "warned"  that it is easy to get "tangled up in others feelings" (note: it is almost always not their feelings -it's that they​​ spark the feelings in you, but it often feels like it is theirs). 

They repeated what they've said many times, don't resist any feeling.

This had a big impact on me because I realized I had been doing what feeling-being Vineeto did.. I was blocking the feelings of all the sorrow and malice of the world! 

Another answer that really "hit home for me" was to Q4's question about sorrow. They said that you cannot ever get the solution to sorrow  until you're out of the human condition! It is impossible. It is​​ the core of the human condition! And, Actual freedom is the only way out. 

I saw this was true with all the human feelings, there is no solution within the human condition... The only solution is to get out! To be actually free! 

ALAN

An interesting day!

Shortly after Dona had related her experience of earlier today, Vineeto reminded us that they had a visitor arriving on Saturday so we might have a deadline! I felt a fear – I might have to do it in the next four days or miss out on the opportunity.​​ 

I spent a fair amount of time in the “hot seat” again today, arising from an experience I had yesterday evening which started with me becoming irritable as a reaction to something Dona did and led to all sorts of weird reactions. It only lasted about 15 minutes until I saw that it was pretty silly. 15 minutes prior to that I had been feeling excellent, having lots of fun replying to the questions asked yesterday and suddenly I was feeling bad. I had been unable to discover the cause of the diminution. Richard helped me to pinpoint when the irritability first started (it took a bit of time lol). That I had an expectation of what Dona’s response would be. An example of the actualism method in practice. He pointed out that despite practising actualism for 20 years​​ I was not yet correctly applying the actualism method.

Vineeto assisted in helping me to see that I was not listening to (absorbing and acting on) what she was saying and the answers/comments I was giving were responses caused by a lifetime of habitual behaviour. I kept doing it! And she kept pointing it out. She said it was like continually bouncing off a ‘rubber wall’. It is my modus operandi. Didn’t I want to find out what caused it? Richard asked if I realised that (at that moment) Vineeto cared more about my actual freedom than I did.​​ 

I am starting to accept that the “habitual behaviour” is ‘me’ seeking others approval (particularly Richard and Vineeto currently). I can see it intellectually but have yet to experience it viscerally.

Like Dona I am asking a question “what am I expecting from others (especially Dona)” and waiting for an experiential answer. Richard said he did a similar thing before becoming actually free. His question was “what am I to others”.

I just realised that the fear I​​ mentioned in my first remark has remained with me since and is “sitting inside” churning away, not dealt with. I am not intending to waste this opportunity so I have four days to become actually free.​​ 

FROM SLACK:

Hunterad: “I should note that I fairly often (while feeling good) think that I will be able to keep feeling good indefinitely"

Alan:

An opportune moment to either commit to feeling good for the rest of your life or examine why you cannot do so.

By the way "committing to feeling good" does not mean that one 'has' to feel good for the rest of one's life - there will be 'slippages' from time to time. It is the 'commitment' which does the trick. Beware of not fooling oneself - it has to be a genuine commitment. When one has made that commitment (genuinely) my experience is that it becomes easier and easier to notice any diminution in feeling good and remake the commitment (which remaking becomes automatic after a while).

03 Oct 2017

DONA

Yesterday Vineeto and Richard asked me what was keeping me from​​ being actually free?   I looked but couldn't find anything. They said to let the question sit and it would probably show up. 

Today, I was feeling very good, and I noticed a slight "melancholy tone" mixed in with it. I noticed this yesterday as well. Though... It didn't stop my feeling very good, it was definitely there. I noticed that this feeling felt "bitter-sweet", like I was drawn into it.

I investigated it further, and looked up melancholy in the dictionary: A feeling of pensive sadness, typically with no obvious cause.

On investigating it, I  couldn't find anything more with that, so I let it go.

A little bit later I lay down on the bed and started to look for "objections" to my becoming actually free. I figured I would go through the Instinctual passions. Though I realize there are many, I figured I'd start with the main 4... Aggression, fear, desire and nurture... But I couldn't think of that last one ... Nurture.. (which gave me a big clue as to which one might be holding on)!

So I went through the first 3, and there wasn't any objection to my being free, as it was obvious that intelligence was able to deal with situations far better than "they" could. But, nurture had 'objections'. I heard Richard's voice, "do you want to be this way for the rest​​ of your life"? And, still nothing.

I felt that melancholy there, it was very compelling, I realized I wanted to keep that (and all the nurture) feelings. Even though melancholy is sorrow, it had such a pleasant feel, like a big "mother hug".

I saw myself in a pool of sludge, with everyone in the human condition there. I could see clearly that I was stuck there myself, and it was impossible to​​ assist anyone here, including myself! The only way is out.

I felt a strong "presence" in my core/gut and a sense of​​ an umbilical cord attached...I didn't cut it.

When I told Alan about the experience, he asked if the melancholy was a "longing"... I didn't see that then. 

I told Richard of the experience (Vineeto was not there), he talked about nurture as being part of love and affection, and that might be why the melancholy feeling was there (as love, though enticing, is full of sadness/sorrow). I could see that connection. And now as I'm writing I see that perhaps I was feeling the worlds sorrow because I wanted to nurture (help) everyone get out.

But while being stuck in it that isn't possible.

I asked Richard what the actual world "alternative" is to nurture, and he said actual caring... Though he corrected me and said the real world nurture is the alternative to actual caring... And I saw it immediately... That is the "unitykey" (what I named it) that I saw so many years ago... What we were really looking for before we got stuck in the world of feelings.

So, i will investigate further into this tonight and tomorrow and​​ still leave the question in my awareness, "what is keeping me from being actually free?" 

I also told them about me seeing I wasn't triggered by someone making a remark about women that in the past I would've had a (strong) feeling/reaction about .. So possibly that is really gone. 

Alan had some great insights into what happened to him yesterday, which I am sure he will write about.

We asked them the questions that you have asked, and had long discussions on them. Every now and then the discussion came​​ back around to what Alan and I have been experiencing since we've been here. 

ALAN​​ 

A good nights sleep has worked wonders and everything is much clearer this morning. I can see that I have an habitual response of trying to give people an immediate answer without listening to them and absorbing what they are saying. It was really intense yesterday when Vineeto was trying to get me to see it. ‘I’ felt under personal attack. And the more I tried to find the answer to what she was asking the more desperate I​​ became. When she asked “don’t you want to find out about yourself” I went into a blue funk. I couldn’t find the ‘right’ answer. I thought she was going to give up on me and say there was no point in seeing me again as I had no chance of becoming actually​​ free – And I couldn’t see she was trying to help me! I was being so stubborn lol. Now I get what Vineeto meant when she said it was like banging up against a rubber wall. Dona said last night she could see it so clearly and it was very amusing – it is!

It’s a defence mechanism which I’ve been using all of my life (as far as I can remember anyway), reinforced by bullying at secondary school – it became my way of operating. It is ‘my’ mechanism for trying to stop people seeing that I don’t know how to operate. It’s a “cover up”. To stop people seeing the ‘real’ me. WOW​​ 

I wasn’t in the ‘hot seat’ today! Dona had a turn for a little while but she didn’t make it nearly as hot as me lol. She saw straight away what Richard was getting at.​​ 

DONA

During the night I awoke at 2am with "negative thoughts" about me being here for 2 weeks, and though​​ I have made progress (feeling good each moment again), I now was feeling upset that I wasn't free yet! I started to feel "self pity", and recognized that and told myself I wasn't going to go down that road again! I saw my habitual pattern, the "unworthy" that stops me from getting anywhere. Once I was feeling good again, I could see this pattern clearly... I use it to stop myself from doing anything. It's my "go to" excuse for everything. 

I stayed awake for about an hour, looking at this pattern, and Alan​​ woke up and he decided to get up and stay up. At 6:30 he came in to tell me that the sun was rising, as he knows I like to watch it (we can see it over the river from our balcony). He sat down next to me, and touched my shoulder and I woke from a deep sleep and snapped at him! I immediately saw (and heard) the violence in me. From the experience of me getting caught in that pattern of unworthy and the violence, I knew the only way out was to become actually free.​​ I was harming myself and those around me, and there was no other option.

It was a sunny day, so we met at our hotel, sitting out on the balcony. 

Alan told Richard and Vineeto of the fabulous experience he had the night before (which I was too stuck in my​​ sh*t to be a part of!)... And there was a lot of discussion about it (which Alan will relay in his notes)

We talked a lot about spirituality, and how it permeates every being. Richard thought it humorous that he thought himself an atheist, and then became​​ enlightened (full on spiritual!). Vineeto asked Alan if he thought he had a spiritual background, and Alan said he didn't, though then he relayed some stories which showed that even when we don't think we have a spiritual background, we actually do and she pointed out how important it was to notice this and notice beliefs we are holding onto.

We also talked a lot about what it is like to live in the actual world, how they perceive/see things differently than when they were feeling beings. 

Richard spoke about time, and how it is always now. He used an example of 5 minutes "from now" being the same now as the now we are in... And asked Alan to notice the clock (a large clock/bell tower that is visible from our balcony), and Alan told him when 5 minutes was up, and Richard said, see... It is now. It is always now.

We talked about the experience of becoming actually free and "objections" that come up by the being. Vineeto said there needs to be complete agreement from the self... Which I really "got/get"

Alan read Martin P's question (the only one we had today) about not being able to feel good, and we talked about choice, and it is always a choice as to how I feel each moment (again).

It was a very enjoyable and intimate afternoon. 

ALAN

I woke up about 3 and​​ was thinking that I don’t seem to have made much progress. We’ve been here for two weeks, meeting up with Richard and Vineeto every day and I seemed to be back to how I was before we came here. Not feeling very intimate and sometimes struggling to feel good. Not much ‘delight’ .

I’ve been thinking how it is for them, meeting up with us. I said to Dona last night it is just as well they can’t feel impatience or annoyance or they would have given up on me after a couple of hours. I was also experiencing a bit​​ that here was someone who actually cared for me – even with all this bullshit. I was also thinking about Richard saying I don’t exist in the actual world – he just pays lip service to the feeling being who is talking to him.

There has been a feeling of uneasiness lurking and I traced it back to when it started - Monday afternoon when Vineeto was questioning me about not listening (the actualism method). Yesterday I discovered the ostensible reason – that it was a defence mechanism

Yesterday Vineeto said to me that it had been valuable (when I was being bullied at school for example) but I didn’t have to keep it up, especially when I was in a safe environment, as I was now. I knew there was more to it. I started thinking about the reason – I didn’t want people to realise I don’t know. It was tied up with the “making it all up” that I was trying to explain a few days ago. I started to experience that viscerally – I really am making it up – everything – and I started to get a hint of experiencing that I am a fraud. I could feel it – and the burden of keeping it up every waking moment. It would be such a relief to give it all up. It is ‘me’ that ‘I’ am making up!

I don’t have to hide anymore. All my life I’ve been hiding. I don’t have to do it anymore. It was necessary – it’s a cruel, nasty world out there – but it has served its purpose. I can let it​​ go. And still be safe. I’m the little boy peeking out from behind the covers to see if it’s safe. Is it safe? Is it safe? ​​ Yes, it is safe. I don’t need to hide any more. I want to shout it to the world – I DON’T NEED TO HIDE ANYMORE. I feel alive! The relief, the joy, the exuberance is amazing. The freedom to be what I am. I don’t need to hide anymore. It’s so exciting. The freedom to experience myself as I always​​ have been but was too afraid to risk it.​​ 

I’m​​ not​​ hiding anymore. ​​ 

I am going to become actually free today. With the codicil it might be tomorrow lol.​​ 

****

A great meeting with Richard and Vineeto. Although the last two days were a bit hard going for​​ me, the results were astounding, as above, so I felt today was much ‘lighter’ and more fun – I’ve got that monkey off my back sort of thing. We discussed my experience quite a bit,.

The topics, as usual, were varied and far ranging, although obviously focussing on an actual freedom. It is delightful just to sit and chat with them as their knowledge (especially Richards) is outstanding – I am not saying he knows all things. He is always keen to learn and will sometimes further research something we have said, which he did not know about, in the evening or the next morning and come back with his views the next day. They both seem to know more about Britain than me (history and current affairs).​​ 

One thing stood out for me, when I said to Richard that I didn’t​​ know what was holding me back from becoming actually free. “You do realise that when you become actually free it will be now”, he asked. You have a deadline of Saturday and said you are going to become actually free before then. Let’s say you become free​​ at sunset on Friday afternoon – when you become free it will be now. All one gets by waiting is more waiting. The town hall clock there says it is 5.35 and you are experiencing that as now. When the clock says it is 5.45 (an arbitrary measure determined by​​ the earths rotation) I am going to ask you if it is now – for you. In an actual freedom it is always now – ever new, ever fresh and always now.

05 Oct 2017

ALAN

I had experiential proof this morning that I am not “hiding any more”.​​ 

Dona asked if I wanted to walk down to the beach to see the sunrise and I said “no” without thinking about it. There was no thought of “should I do it”. I no longer have to do anything to please her or seek her approval – which is not the same as not being considerate. It is such a release. Amusingly she said afterwards that she was pleased I did not come as she fancied a walk on her own. It is just so sensible to be honest – but it takes naïveté to do so.

I can now experience myself as both likeable and liking – for the first​​ time – and also understand (at least partially) what naïveté means. It is how I was before the social identity was formed. As Richard put it – like a child but with adult sensibilities.​​ 

I also contemplated more on “when it happens it will be now” and started to experience it more as a possibility?

I said yesterday that I couldn’t find any objections which were holding me back from an actual freedom. Vineeto said that Peter and Claudiu had become close to the actual world when wondering what it was like for Richard, so I decided to give that a try. At first it was an intellectual exercise and ‘self’ centred – as in I can’t imagine what it is like for him and I dismissed those thoughts (ok, that’s interesting - what else). I started to get curious and it certainly had some effect on an experiential level. I pursued this a bit more when we met​​ up, especially on intimacy, sex and purity personified  ​​​​ I could sense ‘something’ (could be kidding myself) but that is as far as it got.​​ 

DONA

I took a long walk on the beach this morning at sunrise... It was a beautiful warm, sunny morning. The water shimmered as it reflected the early morning light... I was feeling very good. I again noticed that in that "feeling very good" there was this other "tone" that is best described as melancholy. I realized it is a "tone" that permeates my life... always there lurking in the background. Even when I'm feeling very good... It's there. Vineeto pointed out yesterday it's mixing feeling good with good feelings (even though it would seem that melancholy is a "bad" feeling... It has a "bitter sweet" flavor to it...a "pull on the heart strings" ... feeling to it)

Once I noticed this "tone", I was able to increase myself to feeling great.. laughing and really enjoying myself... And the​​ tone disappeared. 

Richard and Vineeto came to our hotel and we sat on the balcony overlooking Richmond River.

I told them of my experience at the beach and Vineeto wanted to make sure I wasn't repressing the meloncholy feelings. I told her that I increased my "feeling very good" to 'feeling great"... though I knew that it is still there (the meloncholy). I am looking at what I might be getting melancholy about.. possibly the self not wanting to go.. Or "me" feeling I will miss it... Sadness for the  "loss" ... maybe leaving humanity. Something like that...I will see what comes up tonight as I ponder it.

 We talked about love and though it is definitely worth exploring, as all feelings are,  it is very easy to get stuck in. He told us many stories from his life and loves and how love doesn’t work.

We discussed sex and how it might be different  with actually free people... And as with most things, it depends on the people and their age..etc. 

Alan relayed some realizations he had this morning (which I'm​​ sure he will put in his notes). 

We talked more about the commitment to feeling good each moment again for the rest of my life, and how important that is. 

Richard said that he used the memories of his PCEs to keep him committed to actual freedom from the​​ human condition. And his memories of the PCEs were of feeling very good, so he realized that he wanted to come as close as he could to imitating that.

One thing said that really hit home was about how we can't become actually free by ourselves... We need​​ something "outside" ourself. That is why they talk about altruism (as Peter and Vineeto did). Richard used the intent, "I give permission to allow it to happen" as a way to bypass "himself". Though I realized that (I cannot do it myself)... The word self-immolation got me thinking it was myself immolating myself ... Haha... Saying it like that makes it obvious how impossible that could be!​​ 😀

06 Oct 2017

DONA

Yesterday Richard emphasized the importance of the PCE as his experience of what was possible.​​ They were always there as reminder of what he was aiming for. I mentioned that I don't remember any PCEs, which I'm sure I've had. Richard asked me if there was any experience that I remember, and I told him of  an experience in 1997, where I completely disappeared, only lasting a few seconds, and I don't remember anything other than the "knowing" there was another world (because I experienced being there).. but no details/memories came up.

Vineeto asked me why I traveled all the way to Australia for something I don't know, aren't sure about? I couldn't answer her, other than this is something I've "always known" (yes, vague, but it's been burning in me for as long as I can remember). So I must've had PCEs when I was a child and cannot remember them.

This morning I woke at 3am and decided to look for memories, and something that happened a few days ago "clicked"... Richard mentioned something and it reminded me of a process I did in the early 2000s called Deep PEAT. Where I would go deeply into an issue to the point where a set of polarities are in conflict, and then merge the polarities. At this point I cannot find ANY polarities (no good or bad, no right or wrong..), and I cannot find me. After doing this a few times I started to "see beyond the polarities" and saw what I called "the real world" beyond the illusion. I started to do the process on others and they too could get to "beyond reality" (this is in a trance-like state, so not a 'true' PCE), but it gave me​​ a peek at the actual world.

This morning I looked at my resistance to being actually free from the human condition and a lot of fear came up... Then a deep sorrow, right into my core. I felt a pressure in my abdomen. I experienced being stuck in the "sorrow soup of humanity"... And I was crying and I didn't want to leave, and they wanted me to stay. The experience was very deep, and painful (chest tight/tears). I realized I liked it there, no responsibilities, being "taken care of"... 

Then something shifted and I saw myself outside on solid ground... Offering my hands and knowing I wouldn't be pulled back in, and the words came... that I cannot remember exactly ... Something like  "only when I'm out, can I get in" 

It was another beautiful day here in Ballina, much hotter than the previous days. Richard and Vineeto came to our hotel and we sat on the balcony.

Alan relayed an experience he had (which I'm sure will be in his notes). 

I relayed my attempts at getting memories of PCEs. Vineeto was quick to make sure that I'm not getting into spirituality, because I could end up in an ASC or worse, into enlightenment. She said that the memories of the PCEs are important so I don't go astray, and end up in the "wrong place", since the mind often goes there automatically, and they are aware of my spiritual background (and the experiences of the actual world were in a trance-like state, not in full awake/awareness). 

We discussed what it's like to be in the actual world, sensory experiences..etc. very interesting to​​ hear what the differences are between the two of them.

Richard talked about "feeling good" as the third choice (vs good feelings and bad feelings).
Also Vineeto pointed out to me that I was in "good feelings" (when sensing the meloncholy) and not feeling​​ good.
What I got, and have a sense of now, is that "feeling good" (sense of well being) is "something different". Richard even said, "it's too bad that it's the same word" (feeling). 

Alan and I had a seafood buffet set out (prawns, oysters and mussels),​​ along with salad and cheese and cold meats. We had a leisurely lunch...a very pleasant and enjoyable day. 

ALAN

All my notes for the last two days managed to disappear so this is a brief summary of the important bit.

Yesterday morning I started thinking​​ about how I could reconcile the newly found naïve me with the malicious me. I was also contemplating on how Richard and Vineeto experienced life in the actual world and started to realise that it was ‘me’ who was preventing the experience of what is happening. It started to become more actual with the thought that everything is happening without ‘me’ (I was particularly thinking of what I was seeing) and it will go on happening when ‘I’ am no longer. And that this body will continue happening without ‘me’.​​ I was seeing this as a fact. Although I have read similar (and written it) the seeing of it as a fact was a pretty powerful experience. So much so that Vineeto, shortly after they arrived and before I had related my experience, said “you’re excited aren’t​​ you?”

08 Oct 2017

ALAN

I just remembered something we were discussing on Friday. It links in with an actual freedom being the next step in human evolution which I talked about recently.

We would not have PCE’s if an actual freedom from the human condition​​ was not the next evolutionary step – why would a PCE happen? It is not a random event which ‘just happens’. It is ‘built in’ so to speak – without implying any ‘plan’ - the universe is not intelligent. They both said “it is much more than intelligent” (with no anthropomorphism in the statement). They both found it difficult to find the correct words. I guess it cannot be described and can only be ‘experienced’ in an actual freedom and possibly only when one is fully free (I did not ask the question).

13 Oct 2017

DONA

Just before waking I had a lot of fear arise, panic, with a lot of intense pain and the thought that I might go insane if I try to self-immolate (go in the wrong direction). Then I woke fully and the pain persisted - mostly in my head and shoulder.

I started to do what i normally do, feel bad for myself ("poor me"... I'm in pain). And then I remembered that I had a choice to feel good. And just realizing that did it... I was feeling good (and, yes, the pain was still there... But reduced). I took some aspirin and Alan gave me a lovely back massage and I felt much better, though there was still a hint of the pain... I was feeling very good! How awesome to have that experience of having pain and feeling good. I looked at the issues that cause me to usually feel bad when I'm not well, and most of it was about feeling sorry for myself. As I write this (and later when discussing it with Richard and Vineeto), I realize that the pain came on while in the fear, so I will look at that tonight. 

Richard and Vineeto came by, as well as an "old friend" of Richard's... Mick. He knew Richard from art school/University and also was with him during his "enlightenment​​ years".  They hadn't communicated in the past 25 years, so he hasn't seen Richard since he become actually free.

He was with Richard and Vineeto while Alan and I were at the Great Barrier Reef (he stayed in our hotel room while we were gone). He was supposed to leave yesterday, but he was getting so much from being with Richard and Vineeto he decided​​ to stay another week.

Mick had questions that I wouldn't have thought to ask, and clarifications of things that I thought I knew, but didn't, since he was totally unfamiliar with Actual Freedom.

One big clarification was of what Richard calls the identity, as I was unclear on that.. I knew it related to the Instinctual passions, but wasn't clear on it also including the ego and the social identity... the whole package. I gathered that was it, but wasn't sure. It was nice to get that clarified.

Alan relayed some experiences he has had which he will most likely have in his notes.

I told them about feeling good while having pain, and Richard told us that Devika said she was going to try the actualism method with pain she had. It worked and she had a similar experience (the pain is still there, and still feeling good).

We talked more about pain, and Mick brought up a time when he was with Richard, and Richard had a toothache, but since he was "enlightened" at the time he "rose above" the pain, so he didn't feel​​ it... He (Richard) said he did it for so long, that the tooth was in such bad shape he had to have it removed. I realized that this might be what Lindy was asking about (wondering why he felt pain). Richard explained that was part of the "enlightenment experience" to "transcend" human experience/pain. As an Actually Free person, he is aware of his body and all sensations, including pain.

I also told them about the fear that came up, and the feeling/panic that I would go insane. Vineeto was very interested​​ in knowing what the experience felt like (what I meant by "going insane"), but it was difficult to explain, since I was in a half awake state, and I described it as I did above. This is when I realized I hadn't investigated it further.

Mick talked about the concepts of the mind, and how he views the world and Richard and Vineeto explained Actual Freedom and how it's a new way, completely different from any concept he had heard of before.

He questioned the Actualism "method", as there is no method, and Richard explained how that came about, by someone from another list asking him, "what is his way". 

We had lots of laughs and good fun throughout the day...​​ 

14 Oct 2017

DONA

This morning I woke at 3am, and couldn't​​ get back to sleep. Vineeto had been expressing her concern that I cannot remember a PCE. She said I needed something to let me know I'm going in the "right direction"... Especially since she knows I was involved very heavily in spirituality, and did "energy healing" for about 20 years, where I frequently left my body and was in an altered state of consciousness (not to mention many years of heavy drug use). 

I also looked at the fear that came up the day before, and wondered if it had to do with this "warning" that Vineeto had been giving me. Other fears that came up was the fear that "I can't do this", and a huge reaction to the fear of death.

I then looked at all the experiences I had, and couldn't remember any that had all the PCE "earmarks". 

So I decided to get up and go on the balcony and attempt to have a PCE... Following the "directions" from  Richard's "guidelines", as well as Craig, Q3 and Geoffreys posts. It was a very foggy night, but warm and calm out. I gazed out at the night lights, and the fog moving, and occasionally seagulls cries as they flew by. I sat there for at least an hour... And... Nope... No PCE. Yet, I realized I was feeling very good, and then went into sheer delight at being alive...I laughed out loud... It was ok that I didn't​​ have what I expected, I got an amazing experience anyway! I wanted to share my delight with Alan, so I went back to bed and had an amazing intimate time with him.

It was raining today, so we picked up Mick at his hotel and went to Richard and Vineeto's boat. I told them of my experience of the morning... I was still feeling very good! Vineeto still expressed her concern that I don't go in the "wrong direction", and I am definitely heeding her words... And again wondering if that is causing me to "worry" too​​ much and not allowing myself to leave.

We talked about morals and ethics and the "formation" of the identity... From birth with the Instinctual passions, to the formation of the ego about age 2, then the social identity at around age 7. 

Alan spoke of some things that have been coming up with him that he will probably mention in his notes.

We asked Richard and Vineeto the questions that some people on slack had, which are posted in a separate document. The biggest thing that I got from it was Srid asking about the difference between "feeling good" and "enjoying and appreciating"... Both Richard and Vineeto were very animated when replying to this... That "feeling good" is a baseline to commit to... And "enjoying and appreciating” is actively endorsing being​​ alive and wanting to be alive. They said that all humans have a "resentment" to being here, they know they are locked out of paradise. Enjoying and appreciating is taking charge of our lives, no longer victims of our feelings!! Yikes... Biggie!!

Craig said it perfectly (in a question he had for Richard and Vineeto): Enjoy each moment of being alive, and appreciate each moment that it is this moment of being alive.

Excellent!

Vineeto spoke about what propelled her towards her actual freedom, the caring and​​ appreciation for another that was so deep, so profound, that she couldn't (and wouldn't) allow anything get in her way of achieving her Actual Freedom.

Alan was on the "hot seat" for a while when Vineeto started to ask him some pointed questions... I'll​​ let him tell you about it.

15 Oct 2017

DONA

It was a cloudy, rainy day in Ballina today. I woke with the hip pain I had the other day, as well as my shoulder hurting, and the actualism method worked, though this time I didn't feel "as good". Last time I was very (very) good... Today it didn't get above good for very long. 

I sat outside for an extended time and practiced getting a PCE, I was able to get to feeling almost excellent, the world was awesome, the clouds made interesting shapes and the wind was​​ blowing...I was visited by our friendly Blue-faced Honeyeaters (a family of them)​​ that come by everyday for the food we put out for them... Such amazing birds. I didn't achieve a PCE, though I felt the best that I'd felt all day, so it was a success as far​​ as I'm concerned.

Since it was raining today, we picked up Mick and met on Richard and Vineeto's boat again today. 

Mick had some interesting experiences last night that he spoke about.

Alan also had some experiences that he might post in his notes.

We got on the topic of the senses and whether Richard or Vineeto's senses have changed since becoming actually free. Richard had mentioned earlier that he got an increase in colors a few months after becoming fully free. Vineeto said that hadn't happened to her. They spoke a bit about the "quickening" sensation they get when they are around someone who is close to the actual world. Neither of them know what that is, though they think it might be electro-magnetic. Neither has noticed anything else that has changed/increased since becoming Actually Free.

I forgot to mention that yesterday Richard spoke about how he lost his "imagination", but that happened while he was still a feeling being. I wondered how that had affected his artwork, and he said it enhanced it, since he didn't rely at all on imagination, he had to look at the real thing and paint it as he looked at it without looking away at all. He also doesn't dream, but that is something he purposely developed over a few months period, and says he sleeps only about 4 hours a night, solid sleep (without being awoken by dreams). 

We went over the questions (which are posted in a separate document). I always get so much from the questions other people ask... Often they are questions I think I know the answer to​​ (so I don't ask... Or even think to ask) ... But then find out...nope! Lol. 

One question by Geoffrey regarding feeling good and "whittling down" got me to realize how much I've gained by doing the actualism method consistantly since I've been here. I​​ have been investigating myself intensely for over 40 years (including taking all sorts of workshops, and being in private practice doing "energy healing" and other holistic practices, and teaching numerous different processes/practices).

 In the past, I thought it was important to "stay with the feeling"... Follow the feeling to it's "root/core" while I was in it (like I wanted to keep the feeling there ... As a "beacon" to find it elsewhere). What happened is that I would just go round and round and never​​ get anywhere. Ok... Yes, I'd often have big insights, but most of the time it just made me feel worse and keep me feeling bad! 

 And eventually they always "bottomed" to the same big ones: "I'm not good enough", "I'm unworthy", "I'm a fake". I was stuck, because these are all "true statements" for a feeling being... So there was nowhere to go with them. Which then gave me the perfect excuse to feel bad... And stay stuck in feeling bad!

Vineeto showed me that I didn't have to go down those same roads anymore. To see that I was stuck in a habit of that, and get back to feeling good. Then look for the beliefs/thoughts that first caused me to feel bad. As Richard says, I usually won't need to go back more than a few hours 🙂

And, the BIG thing I got today (also​​ from one of Geoffrey’s questions) was that whittling away at beliefs does make the social identity "smaller", but does NOT get rid of (or lessen) feelings. It might eliminate some of the "triggers", but not the feelings themselves.

Only becoming Actually​​ Free does that.

ALAN

In her recent notes Dona has referred a few times to the ‘experiences’ I have been having. It is not that I do not wish to share them with people, it is simply that I have chosen not to spend time writing rather that experiencing and​​ investigating, contemplating - and enjoying being here. There is so much going on (in me) and so much happening (for me) that writing notes would somehow be a distraction at the moment. I enjoy answering the questions as that often leads to a discovery/realisation/understanding for me so that is the limit of my writing at present.​​ 

16 Oct 2017

DONA

Another rainy, windy day here in Ballina, though it didn't diminish my feeling good... Feeling very good most of the day. I didn't have any aches or pains,​​ which is a plus as well​​ 😀

I again attempted to remember (rememorate) a PCE... Nothing yet. I know I've had them, probably many... But with all my years of spiritual and "energy healing" practices they've all gotten mixed up in my memory. I attempted to have a "new" PCE again, and though I can get to that place of wide-eyed wonder and delight... it still hasn't gone into a PCE. and, as before, the experience I do get to is well worth the effort!

Since it was raining, we picked up Mick and went to Richard and Vineeto's boat. 

Alan and I had been discussing the Instinctual passions earlier... Where do they come from? Since we're born with them, are they physical... And if so, why aren't they part of the actual world? I read some of what Peter posted on the website about the amygdala and it's function on instincts (study by LeDoux), and it still wasn't clear, so I asked Richard and Vineeto if they could clarify. Richard said that he hadn't done a lot of research on it, but it seems that the instincts are "stored" in the brain stem (the reptilian brain), as that's where he felt some sensations when he became enlightened (not when he became actually free). He also deduced that lower forms of animals have instincts, but don't have amygdalae. But, he didn't know for sure, that was his guess. 

He talked at length about neuroscience and studies that have been done, and no one has actually located where instincts are, or where they come from. We discussed the developing foetus/baby and the instincts of suckling and even knowing to breath, eat and excrete (since it doesn't do that in the womb). We discussed that it could be genetically encoded, but that hasn't been proven either.

Either way, it does not exist in the actual world, so it is not physical... As this was my main question... How could something physical not be in the actual world. The organ(s) that "holds/processes" the encoding/instincts is physical, but... Like a thought (which the brain processes).. Instincts are not physical. Vineeto said they were an energy, and thus could be removed/eliminated.

Richard also used the analogy of a computer (physical), and software (not physical). I've used this analogy myself in regards to thoughts, but never thought of it in regards to the instincts .. And now I can see this clearer. I was wondering how we could eliminate something that was physical... And it's not... Good to know​​ 😀​​ [4]

We talked about remembering PCEs (and again they both stressed the importance of remembering them to know where we are going). 

We asked​​ the questions from slack which led to great discussions... 

Vineeto spoke of  her experience of experiencing (romanic) love and removing it from her life, she had to see the whole picture, the whole "fairy-tale" that went along with it... Both the good and the bad feelings... The whole thing. Once that was experienced fully, she no longer had to walk down that road again. Though (romantic) love still existed within her, while still a feeling being, she no longer experienced any aspects of it. 

Though, she​​ still then had to fully experience other types of love... Parents, family... Etc

This was very important for me to hear, because yesterday we spoke about how feelings are never eliminated until we are actually free, yet there is a possibility that they​​ aren't "activated" if I clear them and all the aspects of them... There will be no "trigger" for them. 

Richard also spoke about him clearing anger out of his life (when he was still a feeling being).

There was a question regarding the instinct of "belonging to a group", yet if there were no group to join with, that particular instinct would not be needed or used (same with any other instinct). So, even though we would have an instinct, it doesn't necessarily mean it will be activated/needed/used.

And the​​ discussion on prophesy was also quite good, as he "knows" that actual freedom is inevitable, why else would we have PCEs? It's showing us something that at the moment we might only have a glimpse of, but it is actually there for all of us. To him, it seems to be the next evolutionary step. 

It was an awesome day full of lots of laughs and fun, and as always... Great discussions.

Also... Richard showed an interest in slack. He really enjoys answering the questions we bring with us each day. He asked some​​ questions about slack, and said he'd never been in a chat list before... Perhaps he's considering getting back into communicating with the group...? That would be awesome! 

[4] Richard has likened the instinctual passions to the ROM of a BIOS chip – see​​ LINK

ALAN

Yes, a fun day – which of course largely, if not entirely, reflected how we were feeling – great! Life is so much fun when you’re having fun.

Yesterday, when I was talking about my experiences, Vineeto said there was something missing – “not on the table” – the PCE. I said yes, I had been trying to rememorate a PCE and hadn’t succeeded but I could remember having them. Richard suggested I could​​ ‘remember’ them because I had written about them. Back at our hotel last night I contemplated further on it and discovered I had no memory whatsoever of the last PCE I had, last year, although some memory must have triggered as I looked up my notes and there it was. I even wrote​​ “Had an outstanding PCE a couple of hours ago - first full blown for many years and much more intense than I can recall. I kept saying "it can't possibly be​​ this simple".​​ And yet I could not remember even having it let alone rememorate it. It was quite a ‘shock’. I had ‘forgotten’ what I was aiming for.

This morning I again attempted to rememorate a PCE and the resistance which came up was astounding. The energy I was putting into resisting it was incredible.​​ 

I still have not succeeded in remomorating or having a PCE – work in progress.

17 Oct 2017

DONA

Another cloudy, rainy, windy day in Ballina. I sat outside and had a sense that my "end is near"...  I've had that since I've been here : ))

I had some "resentments" come up with Alan, and noticed that they were persisting, so I looked at my irritation... Then the anger, then the fear. Alan suggested it was because he wasn't being "considerate", and I looked at that... But it seemed to be more than that, that there was an element of​​ "passive aggressiveness" in his actions. 

I saw some fears of being controlled, and as soon as that was experienced I started to laugh out loud, because they were so silly. I got back to the irritation/anger and I saw that I "wanted to be right" ... And, again, I laughed out loud, as that too was silly. I started to experience all my beliefs as so ridiculously silly... And continued to laugh. The big cosmic joke.. I am making all this "drama" up.

Later another irritation arose, and it looked to me like Alan was having a mini-tantrum (a little kid having to have his way... Shutting off the car and demanding I had to get out farther away than I asked him to drop me off). At the time I was shocked at this "drama". We were headed to Richard and Vineeto's so I forgot about it until later after we got back to the hotel... And wondered what that was about. 

He was showing me my stubborn little girl refusing to do something ... Digging in my feet (having a tantrum), just saying "no" (to becoming actually free!!). In​​ investigating this, it was obvious that there was no "reasoning " with her (too stubborn for that!!) ... So, I thought... Why would this little girl be so resistant? And there was fear... Deep Fear of death... But a deeper fear came up... Of the unknown. 

I then went into the thrilling aspect of that fear. In the past few years I have given up almost everything in my life and have turned it completely upside down... And it has been an amazing journey/experience. Yes, the unknown is scary, yet it is​​ amazingly thrilling as well... Not knowing where I will end up, what will be there, what to expect (ah... Biggie!!). 

Sorrow came up as well... A deep sorrow. I thought it was for leaving humanity, yet it is clear to me that self-immolation is the best for​​ humanity, and that didn't seem to be the cause of it. It was a sadness of leaving. This (my identity) has been with me all my life and I was feeling sad that it was leaving. I wanted to hold onto it, keep it... Not let it go! It is this little child that​​ I want to comfort and hold close! 

'I' don't want to leave... Perhaps that is leaving humanity, but to me... It is sadness over leaving me (being selfish .. my self). I got myself to feeling good and then enjoying and appreciating (and still feeling the sadness in my "gut"area)... And realized that I had to grow up, that little bird/me needed to leave the nest... It was time. 'I' would go when the body dies anyway... So why not go now? Then I experienced a procrastination ... Lol... So familiar! Well.. why​​ do it now, if I can wait until then? Lol... How silly it all started to be... All the excuses, all the protests!! I can come up with a million of them! I laughed out loud again. 

Since it was rainy and cold, we picked up Mick and went to Richard and Vineeto's boat. Vineeto had to go to work, so it was only Richard today.

Mick mentioned that he was in the library and picked up a book of Pulitzer prize winning photos, and they were mostly of human suffering. He said that looking at those photos made it really sink in that it was the human condition. He also noticed in the photos, that in many cases while some atrocity was happening, some of the onlookers were smiling. They were enjoying the suffering that was being inflicted on others. 

We talked about the "hedonic tone", and I thought that was the good/bad feeling itself. Like anger is unpleasant and has a "low/bad tone", and love is pleasant and has a "high/good tone". But Richard explained that it was how I feel about the feeling! Like when I felt the meloncholy, even though that's sadness/sorrow (a normally bad/unpleasant feeling)... It actually was a good/pleasant feeling for me... A nostalgic, perhaps loving feeling. So it had a high hedonic tone, even though sadness has a low tone. 

And those people​​ looking at the atrocities and smiling, they were getting pleasure from something that most people would find unpleasant to watch. 

A few days ago Mick told us about an injury he had to his head, which caused him to lose his sense of smell... Which also impaired his sense of taste as well. I asked him if another sense had been "heightened" to compensate (like blind people have more sensitive hearing...etc). He said he hadn't noticed any.

Today he was very excited because he realized there was another sense​​ that helped him relate to food... It was when he was eating apples, and he heard the crunch of the crisp fruit! Sound! He can hear the food !

We went over the questions that everyone asked us to ask him (Vineeto showed up at the very end to answer the questions related to her becoming actually free).

As always the questions got us into long discussions... Thanks!

 One of the ones that struck me the most was about the "need for validation". Richard said it seems to be a "psychological need"... The good news​​ there is that it can be eliminated now. 

He said the "need for validation" comes from us "knowing" we are a fake/fraud and we need others "validation"  to prove we aren't (though deep down inside we don't believe them anyway). Yes! I see that in myself! 

17 Oct 2017

DONA

Mick wanted to meet privately with Richard and Vineeto today since it's his last day in Ballina. He came to our hotel room so we could spend some time with him,  and Alan and I thought It’d be fun to get a lot of  different "crunchy foods" as a snack while we chatted. We got carrots, celery, peppers, radishes, apples, pears, crisps (AKA potato chips), and crackers... He enjoyed hearing the different sounds with the textures of the different foods. We had a fun time. We dropped Mick off at​​ Richard and Vineeto's boat and Alan and I went to visit Byron Bay (a very popular town about 30 minutes away). 

ALAN

I have spent a lot of time attempting to rememorate a PCE.​​ 

Yesterday, on the boat, Mick had asked me about what happened last year when I​​ thought I had become actually free. I explained it as best I could and this morning listened to the audio recordings I had made at the time. They were quite revealing! I was on my way (on my boat) to meet my cousin and was in a ‘different way of being’. Everything was so much fun and the thing I kept saying over and over was that it was all about enjoying and appreciating. I was convinced I was about to become actually free. And then ‘pathos’ crept in – or, rather, jumped in with both feet – and instead of​​ becoming actually free I went into an actual freedom mimicking ASC​​ [5]. Just prior to that, I had put another’s affective happiness as more important than my actual happiness​​ [6]​​ which resulted in my foregoing my attempt to become actually free. Listening​​ to my recordings did at least get me a ‘flavour’ of what I had been experiencing (prior to the above). Definitely something to be pursued and expanded. Writing this I still have a sense of what it was like – the experience of pure intent, everything was so much fun, there was nothing wrong (and nothing could go wrong).

[5] More can be read about these​​ HERE, particularly Claudiu’s description

[6] Richard’s post on what happened is​​ HERE ​​ ​​​​ His post was what finally brought the ASC to an end – I could not deny the fact that I had prioritised someone’s conditional (affective)​​ and temporary happiness over my unconditional (actual) happiness.​​ 

19 Oct 2017

DONA

The sun finally shone through the clouds today... Very nice to see it again. Mick came by for coffee and a "final good-bye"... Alan drove him to the bus station.

Even​​ though it was sunny, it was also windy and there were "threatening clouds" in the sky, so we met again on Richard and Vineeto's boat.

I told them of my experience of laughing whenever I came upon any "excuses" to be irritated (which are also​​ 
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e of the painting doing ie irectors of the Actual Freedom Trust es - she ​​ be ing ' his experience of the painting doing iexcuses to keep myself from feeling good)... But I now experience laughter when encountering them. 

I was in an extremely "giddy" mood... Laughing at everything...  It was difficult not to break out laughing most of the afternoon (and sometimes I did just burst out laughing).

I also told them of the experience with my "inner child" (apologies for using that term, but it applies)... I mentioned​​ the whole thing on yesterday's notes, so I won't repeat them. Vineeto questioned me along the way. I told her all the "discoveries", and that I got to the point where I told the "little me" it was time to grow up and leave the nest. 

One point Vineeto kept going back to was the sadness of "me" leaving, and what that was about. 

She (and Richard) talked about how "I" didn't exist, and she asked me about my invisible friend (which I told them about a few weeks ago.. that I had until age 6). She asked me where she was, and I said she wasn't anywhere, she never existed.

Richard asked me to remember myself walking up to the boat, and then asked me where "she" was?  I said she doesn't exist. I felt like that could've been a moment to become actually free, though​​ I had looked at my not existing, and that also made me laugh, so there wasn't the impact that it could've had (to "blow 'me' out").

Alan talked about the same incident (which I referred to as a 'mini-tantrum')... And, he thought I was the one tantruming!​​ Lol! How funny the perception differences between the same people having an experience!! 

Richard pointed out that perhaps Alan was in a habit of reacting a certain way, and that he doesn't need to continue that same habit. 

We went over the questions that everyone had, and there were long discussions on them all... With lots of information. 

The most interesting was about autonomous... Which is used a lot on slack. It seemed to me that people were using it to mean "be alone"... Yet, that is not what Richard is meaning. He uses the word to mean that once you are actually free from the human condition you no longer need another person for your "wants and needs"... As there are no "wants and needs" anymore. 

He has often said that unless a man and a woman can​​ live together in peace and harmony 24 hours a day there is no chance of peace on Earth happening.​​ 

After we got back to our hotel something happened to cause Alan to "get upset", and we were discussing it... Then there was a silence. I noticed in the silence that I was "getting his vibes" and could sense his mood ... And realized that I wouldn't have that "ability" any more once I was actually free. I use that "sense" often, like a 6th Sense, and wondered what it would be like not to have it. Vineeto mentioned that it was her biggest "issue" when she became actually free, that she couldn't sense people's moods, and it made it difficult to know how to respond to people.[7]​​ I realize that because of my many years of "energy healing" (and other holistic practices) I use that sense sometimes more than all other senses... That I have 'honed' it, and "rely" on it for much of my communication with other people. 

Also I noticed that feeling Alan's vibes had an affect on me... Causing me to "not feel as good".. and​​ also I had a thought that it "wasn't right" for me to be happy while he was upset!!

A lot to discover with this one.

Someone posted on slack a quote from feeling-being Vineeto that struck home... Regarding diminishing the "good feelings" as well as the "bad" ones. That goes along with the vibes... Some things I might not want to give up. 

Fun times!! 

[7] Vineeto subsequently made the following comment:

Dona writes –​​ 

Vineeto mentioned that it was her biggest "issue" when she became actually free, that​​ she couldn't sense people's moods, and it made it difficult to know how to respond to people.

The absence of affective vibes/psychic currents was so noticeable that I thought it would make it difficult to know how to respond to people in order to assess​​ them, but when I actually met people (acquaintances, neighbours, shopkeepers, etc) I discovered that there was no problem at all – I was simply being myself, neither fearful nor wanting to appear in a particular light, just easy and friendly.​​ 

I had never​​ realized how much, as a feeling being, I had relied on feeling out people’s emotional and psychic disposition.

23 Oct 2017

ALAN

One of the things Richard repeated yesterday was that if man and woman could not live in peace and harmony we might as well give up on ever achieving peace on earth as the relationship between man and woman is the genesis of family and thus the very core of civilisation itself. He has said it a few times (in slightly different ways) since we met up and I have read it many times on the website. Yesterday I ‘got it’ and it has intensified today. If I cannot live in peace and harmony with Dona – with nary a bicker nor a squabble - for the 24 hours of the day I might as well throw in the towel now. It really is as simple as that! Something Dona (and Vineeto) have been trying to impress upon me has also ‘sunk in’. I am responsible for my reactions to whatever is happening. No one else. No vibes or psychic currents. No other person or external ‘events’ or happenings – whatever they might​​ be. Nothing can affect me – except ‘me’. And that realisation is so freeing, so delicious – ambrosial, as Richard put it. And it all started with that experiential realisation about man and woman living in peace and harmony. Now I know – with certainty -​​ what my destiny is.​​ 

All through the ages, and throughout all cultures, one basic predicament exemplified the problem of human relationship and, thus, civilisation itself: man and woman had never been able to live together in peace and harmony – let alone​​ with mutual gladness and delight – for the twenty-four hours of every day for the duration of their respective lives.

Each and every person currently alive, and ever alive, on this otherwise verdant and azure paradise has or had entered this world of minera, flora and fauna via the only possible way – any and all peoples both alive and now dead are or were the progeny of man and woman – and the quality of the start of life is, to a considerable degree, dependent upon the quality of the relationship between​​ each and every person’s progenitor and progenitrix.

Any and all children can and could but blindly follow the examples – and the precepts – bequeathed, at best, with the all-too-human love and compassion of their parental providers and carers (not to mention their extended families).

Obviously, what was required was an in-depth investigation and exploration, an existential uncovering and discovering, a salutary seeking and finding, of the pitfalls and problems which have beset and tormented both genders –​​ difficulties which were, so had it been ordained, set in concrete and indisputable – as per the hoary “you can’t change human nature” maxim.

That appalling status-quo was simply not acceptable to a handful of persons of a sufficiently naïve sensitivity.

Thus the basic premise was, and is, as simplistic as this: if man and woman cannot or could not live together with nary a bicker or a squabble – let alone a quarrel or a wrangle – then forget about street-marches, assorted ‘love-ins’ and other public-demonstrations calling for world peace because man-woman sexuality and intimacy is the genesis of family and thus the very core of civilisation itself.

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/abditorium/epoch-changing.htm

25 Oct 2017

ALAN

Much to my delight when I woke up about 0130 yesterday morning the out from control experience was continuing and did so until shortly before I went back to bed at about 0800​​ when it was​​ starting to lessen. It was still there, though much reduced when I awoke about 1100 and there is still very much a memory of it as I am writing this at 0300.

I am ​​ considering what led to the out from control experience yesterday.​​ 

I was thinking about my​​ realisation the day before regarding man and woman living in peace and harmony when I got to seeing that (as Dona and Vineeto – and Richard - had been encouraging me to do) there has to be a new way of thinking, a completely new paradigm. Realising that everything I had taken to be ‘true’ in the past had to be checked against my new way of thinking to ascertain whether it was correct (factual).​​ 

Thinking about something, reading the writings on the actual freedom website can occasionally lead to a little​​ ‘chink’, a ‘bleed through’ from the actual world. A fleeting glimpse. A bare awareness. The normal inclination is for ‘me’ to make a ‘grab’ for the sensation which has to be resisted (without resisting) for the ‘shift’ to complete. ‘Spotting, being aware of (attentiveness) and allowing that moment to continue and expand (‘me’ letting go of the controls) can allow the ‘shift’ into a different ​​ way of being to complete. Richard wrote about it in the Attentiveness and Sensuousness and Apperceptiveness article:

When one first becomes aware of something there is a fleeting instant of pure perception of sensum, just before one affectively identifies with all the feeling memories associated with its qualia (the qualities pertaining to the properties of the form) and also before one cognitively recognises the percept (the mental product or result of perception), and this ‘raw sense-datum’ stage of sensational perception is a direct experience of the actual

http://www.actualfreedom.com.au/richard/articles/attentivenesssensuousnessapperceptiveness.htm

Of course that “fleeting glimpse” is there each moment again, all one has to do is perceive it and then allow it to continue.​​ 

29 Oct 2017

ALAN

Regarding my recent experience of fear.​​ 

First of all I had to admit I was feeling the fear which took some time (and a bit of ‘prodding’ from Dona and Vineeto) – one can only start from where one is at. I was putting​​ up a huge amount of resistance to admitting that the fear was happening and I could clearly see (feel) the resistance to look at it. And there was a massive amount of energy going into that resistance which increased every time I got closer to the fear. Part of the reluctance to admit I was feeling fear was because I was supposedly feeling good each moment again.

Vineeto pointed out that it was natural to feel fear – we are going 180 degrees opposite to what we have believed/known/been inculcated with all of our lives and putting oneself down for feeling the fear (I shouldn’t be feeling this/I don’t want to feel this etc. which can lead to repression) also reinforces it. ​​ Fear is part of the human condition (‘me’) so it is inevitable it is encountered and felt from time to time. It is important that one is friends with oneself – no one else knows me, or can know me, like me. Perhaps look at it as “there is fear happening” rather than “I am feeling fear” which might make it easier to have a look at the fear. [NOTE I am not sure if this is a good suggestion as it could lead to disassociation - ‘I’ am my feelings].

The confusion - and I experienced plenty of that - is part of the resistance to ‘admitting’ the fear. So, yes, unless one can get back to feeling good​​ (or at least neutral) there is no point in​​ trying to “look at it” too deeply as (in my experience) that only serves to increase the confusion.

When one commits to feeling good each moment again there is no choice to be made – any lapse from feeling good​​ is seen (quicker and quicker with application – attentiveness in operation) and one is automatically feeling good again as it is inherently obvious (from having made the choice to feel good each moment again) that it is silly not to feel good.